Mons. Silvio Báez is the person with the largest number of twitter followers in Nicaragua. He is also the auxiliary bishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of Managua. He was asked by Pope Francis to leave Nicaragua in April 2019 because of the amount of death threats from government supporters against him. This interview provides insights into his departure, current situation and his analysis of the current reality of the country.
Mons. Silvio Báez: “No one can believe themselves to be more important than Nicaragua”
By Fabián Medina, La Prensa, June 5, 2020
Mons. Silvio Báez hopes for an opposition coalition that reaches out to the people. “In other words, getting your shoes dirty. Being present in neighborhoods, in markets, in hamlets, in the countryside. Listening to the people. More than press releases, the people need to be heard.”
Last March 8th, Mons. Silvio Báez arrived in Miami to visit some relatives and since then is staying in that US city. The closing of the borders around the world, the quarantines, and the “stay at home” that the COVID-19 pandemic caused, trapped him there.
Báez left Nicaragua on April 23, 2019 by decision of Pope Francis, and since then has lived within the ranks of his religious family, the Carmelites, and moved between Italy, Ireland, Peru and Spain. He insists that he does not speak as a politician.
In this interview he speaks about the origins of the current opposition organization, Civic Alliance, a group that the bishops of Nicaragua chose to “put before Daniel Ortega an opposition on the other side of the table” during the national dialogue that began on May 16, 2018. “The opposition was absolutely destroyed!”, says Báez. “It was a dictatorship that asked to dialogue with the opposition, when there was no opposition. We had to urgently build an opposition because it did not exist.”
In spite of the fact that his sudden departure happened more than a year ago, he clarifies that he never has worked in the Vatican, as was persistently reported, nor has he ceased being the auxiliary bishop of Managua.
There were those who interpreted your departure from Nicaragua as if the regime twisted the arm of the Vatican. You were a stone in the shoes of Ortega, and he was able to get Pope Francis to pull you out of the country.
In terms of my particular situation, they have not put any conditions on me at all, because, even though I have not physically been in Nicaragua, I continue present in my heart, mind and with my voice. The Pope never has asked me to keep quiet, nor has he ever made one correction to my ministry. I would have seen it as a twisting of arms if they would have removed me and said, “look, I am pulling you out, but do not speak out, do not get involved.”
What do you do in the Vatican?
I am going to clarify. The Holy Father asked me to leave Nicaragua to protect my life, because there were explicit death threats that were more than sufficiently verified. He asked me, nearly begged me, to leave. That he did not want another martyr bishop in Central America. This is the reason why I left the country. The Pope never offered me an alternative mission, nor asked me to go to the Vatican. He simply asked me to leave Nicaragua. And the alternative that he gave me was to live in a community of my religious family, the Carmelites. I have not quit being the auxiliary bishop of Managua. And the Pope has never wanted me to leave this title and this responsibility. That is why he has not given me another responsibility, nor has he given me another mission.
Have you talked with the Pope about Nicaragua? What does he say about what is happening here?
Three days ago, I talked by phone from here, in Miami, with the Pope. He is aware that the situation in Nicaragua is dangerous, not just for me as a pastor, but for the great majority of the people. He has asked me some questions about matters that, perhaps, he is not completely clear about. He has told me clearly, “I do not want you to return to Nicaragua as long as this regime is there, because you expose yourself to them shutting you down morally with slander and smear campaigns, or they wipe you out physically with an assassination.”” I believe”, he told me, “that they would do the former, because with the latter they would turn you into a hero.”
Is there no date for your possible return to Nicaragua? Has this possibility been evaluated?
There is no set date. The last thing that I remember that I asked the Holy Father was that whether my return depended on the fall of Daniel Ortega “At least that this regime be pretty weakened,” he told me. He thinks that it is not going to last very long.
How have you experienced these months of the pandemic?
I am in Miami. I came to visit some relatives on March 8th, and I was no longer able to return to Italy. From the beginning I was scandalized and irritated by the response that existed in Nicaragua. Marches of love in times of COVID, and all that craziness. We should not be surprised how this dictatorship has dealt with the pandemic. They have faced it with their same political style as always. Politicizing everything in their favor. Ideological fanaticism even above science. Arrogance. Irrationality. Irresponsibility. Secrecy and lies.
What would be your diagnosis of the regime of Daniel Ortega in these times?
I see him desperate to survive. He has been progressively losing legitimacy, moral authority, respect. I think that it is a regime that has nothing to offer. The only thing that he can offer is lies and repression. This means that it is a delicate moment, because when one is fighting to survive, one is capable of anything.
You continue being mentioned as a presidential candidate to face Ortega in possible elections. Does the possibility exist that Mons. Silvio Báez at some time would leave the cassock and take on a commitment of that nature?
No, absolutely not. Nor do I consider it as a possibility, nor do I feel called to that, nor do I believe that I am capable. It is an option that remains completely discarded. Nicaragua has enough people prepared to deal with the change. I do not see it possible for very personal reasons. What is in play is my coherence before God. The Lord called me to be a pastor of the people, as a witness to the Gospel, and I am not going to renounce this grace that God has granted me.
Technically it is possible. It has already happened.
I would have to leave the ministry. It has already happened. There was a bishop in Paraguay (Fernando Lugo) who resigned, launched his candidacy for the Presidency of the Republic, and won. I respect those decisions, but in my case, I am not considering it at all.
In Nicaragua the opposition is still not able to present itself as united to face Daniel Ortega.
One of the great deficiencies of Nicaragua at this moment is leadership. There is a great void. We need leaders who show the pain of the people. Who instead of talking to the communications media, speak to the people. With the truth, with compassion, emotion. I see Nicaragua like a very powerful phrase from the Gospel, “Jesus saw the crowds, felt compassion for them, because they were sheep without a shepherd.”
There is a lot of disqualification among the opposition. At time the impression is left that it is Daniel Ortega who is pulling the strings.
I think the time has arrived not just for changing a government, but of radically changing the way power is exercised and the way partisan politics is practiced. But this also accompanies a change, and this is for the entire population, concerning exercising the right to citizenship. Leaders have to learn to practice politics in a different way, but the population also have to learn to exercise their rights and obligations. It concerns me, as it does all Nicaraguans, that type of reciprocal distrust that exists among the different opposition leaders. But, curiously, and this is very serious, is the fact that this reciprocal distrust, this fierce suspiciousness, is not due to ideological projects, proposed national policies, but to fights over electoral posts, over who decides first, who makes the decisions.
After April 2018, the Catholic Church was given the responsibility to negotiate a dialogue between the Government and the dissidents. You did not find an organized opposition, and you chose a group as the counterpart. In this way the Civic Alliance was born. What criteria did you use to choose those people?
It is important to locate oneself in the very difficult context in which that decision had to be made. The idea of the dialogue came from the dictatorship. We, on accepting the proposal, had to commit ourselves to placing before them someone with whom they could dialogue. The opposition was absolutely destroyed! It was a dictatorship that asked to dialogue with the opposition, when there was no opposition. We had to urgently build an opposition, because it did not exist. At that time when people were dying, it had to be done in the shortest time possible, without the possibility of doing much consultation; the bishops, without a lot of political experience, the best that we could do was create a group of a sectorial nature that would face the Government. That it would be a bit representative of all the sectors of the country. There were peasants, students, large actors, universities, private sector, civil society organizations, different sectors there…The curious thing is that it did not occur to us to think of the political parties, because we were clear that the existing political parties have been accomplices of the dictatorship. At that moment an authentic opposition had to be chosen. In this way the Civic Alliance was born.
Do you recognize in the current Civic Alliance that group that you formed?
No. That group that we formed to be at the other side of the table from the dictatorship is not the current group that calls itself the Civic Alliance. I believe that it has been largely dismantled. It has lost its charismatic spirit, its national representation. I no longer see them representing all the sectors that were there at that time. It has changed. I do not judge whether it is better or worse. But the current Civic Alliance is not the one of May 2018.
And the National Coalition, do you see its possibility of successfully confronting Daniel Ortega?
The Coalition is a historical event that should not be minimized. It has to be evaluated within the context in which we are, with all its limitations, but also with the possibilities that it opens. But the excessive importance that they have given to the signing of its statutes is noteworthy, this type of bureaucratic concern. Another step has to be taken, where the concern would be the wellbeing of the people, social projects that imply a radical change in the way of building the country. The book of Exodus in the Bible is the history of the liberation of a people submitted to repression, slavery, forced labor, the will of a Pharaoh who is nearly a god who imposes himself on the people. The great leader of Exodus is Moses, and Moses not only wins the confidence of the people, but he works so that the people might have confidence in themselves. This is something that the opposition, or leader in Nicaragua, should have on their agenda. Ceding protagonism to the people. I get the impression that many leaders see the people only as a mass for votes.
What would Mons. Silvio Báez expect from an opposing coalition?
A priority should be reaching out to the people. In other words, getting your shoes dirty. Being present in the neighborhoods, markets, hamlets, in the countryside. Listening to the people. More than press releases, the people need to be heard. The future of the Coalition is not imposing a path and a strategy on the people, but listening to the people, so that, based on that, be marking out the path. They have to forget about sterile discussions that at this point the only thing they cause is popular rejection: ballot posts, electoral alliances, candidates… Let everyone renounce the current ballot posts. The fact is I do not see a current electoral ballot post that does not have a murky history. I do not see a current ballot position that is safe for some future elections.
There is also distrust in the elections.
There is a phrase that is repeated a lot in Nicaragua, “There are no conditions for elections in 2021.” And I think that we are all in agreement with that. The great work of a coalition that wants to be the spokesperson for the desires of the people is creating those conditions. Demanding. Facilitating the path for fair and transparent elections. Overcoming reciprocal distrust, the desire to be in the limelight. No one can believe themselves to be more important than Nicaragua. Overcoming as well a type of inferiority complex with the dictatorship. They have to realize that the dictatorship is a project that is in the process of decomposition. There is no need to have an inferiority complex in the face of a political project that is about to die.
Do you see an electoral outcome for the crisis in Nicaragua?
I see it as very difficult. For the dictatorship power meaning surviving. Putting power into play is handing yourself over to death. Handing over power is leaving yourself unprotected in the face of justice. I do not see this dictatorship agreeing to free, honest and democratic elections. I think that that should be the outcome. The path has to be promoted, doing the electoral reforms needed to save democracy in Nicaragua, and above all, for a constitutional and peaceful outcome, which is the outcome which is sustainable.
So, what sense does it make to promote fair elections that we know will not happen because Ortega knows that they would be his death?
An opposition along these lines is going to be an opposition with authority to demand on the international level new measures in light of this situation that you mention. An opposition that it not content with the crumbs that they might give it, an opposition that is there to change the country, and not to be left in second place. In these moments the great dilemma is: Nicaragua or the dictatorship. It is not an economic, social or political problem. It is not even an issue of winning the elections. It is a matter of saving Nicaragua. There is a people that has been abducted, forsaken, and disrespected. The worst thing that could happen is that we get accustomed to this. That we accept this type of normality that they want to impose on us with lies and weapons.